tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6956070.post2023882205799313760..comments2023-11-03T11:37:13.579-04:00Comments on Something Old, Nothing New: The Art of the OrchestratorJaime J. Weinmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15128500411119962998noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6956070.post-16498074558877063312011-10-06T23:48:34.114-04:002011-10-06T23:48:34.114-04:00some composers need additional
composing and arran...some composers need additional<br />composing and arranging frm the orchestrator..I know a few film composers from the past who wrote a "piano part"..they weren't thinking orchestrally....I won't mention their names bt they turned out some pretty good scores...of course, I don't think this is the norm..rex "steveo" mojohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424729561472845469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6956070.post-24310761546871616622011-01-19T18:03:21.488-05:002011-01-19T18:03:21.488-05:00Surely the line between composing and orchestratin...Surely the line between composing and orchestrating is not as clear as that, which is why composers of art music have always done their own and never farmed it out to others (although the list of great orchestrators is not necessarily the same as that of great composers).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6956070.post-573118894371018482011-01-15T23:29:16.283-05:002011-01-15T23:29:16.283-05:00Noel: Thanks. I mean it. I was afraid this post wo...Noel: Thanks. I mean it. I was afraid this post would turn out to be based on a misconception, because, again, the literature on this stuff is very sketchy and I honestly don't know who does what. (Apart from something like <i>The Producers</i> where the arranger-slash-composer gets his own credit, separately from the orchestrator.)<br /><br />I would note that there are examples, albeit isolated ones, of orchestrators adding in their own orchestral commentary, accompaniment figures, and fills. One example, sticking with Walker, is that he was (or claimed to be, which is a different thing) responsible for the famous idea, in "If I Loved You," of picking a phrase from the refrain to use as orchestral commentary between stanzas (the descending figure that is first sung to "time and again I would try to say...").<br /><br />I also was told, perhaps wrongly, that the even more famous figure in "People Will Say We're In Love" (I wish I could write it here but it's the the bit the orchestra plays right after "Don't throw bouquets at me") is a Russell Bennett addition, not something in the score he was given by Rodgers.<br /><br />Of course that might just be Rodgers, rather than any other composer. Without knowing more about what Sondheim was putting in his scores at the time it was wrong of me to generalize about him (though the <i>Forum</i> experience suggests that he might at least have backed off, temporarily, on making the orchestrator put in all his accompaniment ideas).Jaime J. Weinmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128500411119962998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6956070.post-78990347983341990502011-01-15T19:23:57.855-05:002011-01-15T19:23:57.855-05:00How much actual composing an orchestrator does is ...How much actual composing an orchestrator does is none. A composer does composing. Sometimes arrangement is farmed out to an arranger, and many orchestrators serve as arrangers. It's also true that some composers aren't able to produce a score that can be orchestrated without arrangement. Some write lead sheets, which are just the vocal line with chord symbols. Bob Merrill wrote less than that, and needed an amanuensis to notate. The lines get blurry because orchestrators work closely with composers: one can picture Tunick adding the Rosenkavalier because he knew Sondheim would enjoy the in-joke, as with the piece of Mahler's a few years earlier.<br /><br />But Sondheim, and any composer who cares enough to take responsibility for his work, commits to paper a full score which contains every note the orchestra should play. Orchestrators, in assigning instruments, may omit a redundant note, or choose a different octave, but they do not add. It is, of course, a collaboration, as the composer hears the result and is pleased or sends it back to the drawing board.<br /><br />Your <i>Come Play Wiz Me</i> example is misleading. What you hear on Sondheim's piano demo is NOT the score he handed Walker. It's a reduction (or, more likely, an earlier draft) tailored to Sondheim's modest piano ability. A good piano accompaniment, obviously, uses a maximum of ten fingers, while an orchestra can cover many more pitches. (Strings can play more than one pitch at once and today's bands usually have more than one keyboard.) What you'd really need to compare, if you're interested, is the score Sondheim handed to Walker with the full orchestral score. I doubt you'd find additional notes.<br /><br />http://noelkatz.wordpress.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com